Request for help on markings and nose art

[gamary]

Hello,

My name is Gaëtan Marie and I'm a "profile artist". I'm currently working on the Doolittle raiders for AirStrike Magazine. So far I've done the following a/c:

#1: 40-2344, Doolittle
#3: 40-2270, "Whiskey Pete", Gray
#7: 40-2261, "The Ruptured Duck", Lawson
#8: 40-2242, York
#11: 40-2249, "Hari Kari-er", Greening
#16: 40-2268, "Bat out of Hell", Farrow

I'm looking for any information concerning the remaining a/c:

40-2292, Lt. Travis Hoover
40-2282, Lt. Everett W. Holstrom
40-2283, Capt. David M. Jones
40-2298, "The Green Hornet", Lt. Dean E. Hallmark
40-2303, "Whirling Dervish", Lt. Harold F. Watson
40-2250, Lt. Richard O. Joyce
40-2278, "Fickle Finger", Lt. William M. Bower
40-2247, "The Avenger", Lt. Edgar E. McElroy
40-2297, Maj. John A. Hilger
40-2267, "TNT", Lt. Donald G. Smith

I currently have a bad picture of "The Avenger" (probably from the movie "30 seconds over Tokyo"), pics of models of "TNT" (but not good enough to distinguish the nose art) and still shots from the movie "Pearl Harbour" for the "Whirling Dervish". However, I have doubts about the accuracy of these.

Basically, I'm looking for any info/pics that could tell me what the markings and nose art of these aircraft looked like. Can anybody help me? Thanks in advance!

Here's what "Bat out of Hell" looks like. i hope you like it:

[RyanShort]

I'm assuming you've seen my page at: http://www.doolittleraid.com/b25.htm. Besides that, the only other aircraft I would be comfortable being dogmatic about would be Hari-Karier - of which there are pictures, and The Ruptured Duck - of which there is speculation and the artwork that Mrs. Lawson has, but so far no photos.

Ryan

[RyanShort]

Avenger can be seen in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=213&hilit=+avenger+

Ryan

[gamary]

Thank you for your help, Ryan. I have visited your site and it has been very useful. I will add a link to it when I update my site with the B-25 drawings.

For some reason, I hadn't noticed the other threads about colours and markings and have gone through them with great interest. I don't know what to think of the cowl ring colour part. I am no photo-interpretation expert, but I do know that it is very difficult to find out for certain about such questions (especially with low-rez pictures, as you point out).

Just to see what it looks like, I'll draw the B-25 with different cowl colours and convert to greyscale. Not that this method is particularly accurate, but it isn't without interest either. I'll post these when I'm done.

[gamary]

Here's the converted layout. Once again, this is by no means perfect.

[RyanShort]

Gaëtan,

Right now I personally lean towards the theory that the cowls were painted over with OD before the launch - until we can positively id where each bit of footage is from. I suspect that the shots that appear to show the different colored cowls were from the 30 Seconds set. For sure some of the cowls were painted differently (according to squadron) before the Raid, however, it does seem pretty clear that in the Raid photos at least some of the cowls appear to match the rest of the aircraft - which is why the OD theory seems best.

For certain, it would appear that York's plane started out with a colored cowl:



But ended up flying the Raid with what appears to be OD cowl rings.



Also, see the pictures at: http://www.doolittleraid.com/Research01.htm for more accurate tail markings on 02268. I'm also pretty certain that it had OD cowls.

My profiles aren't nearly as nice as yours - but I tried to get the markings as geometrically accurate as could be determined from the photos I've seen.

Ryan

[RyanShort]

Re: converting the photos to Grayscale - I'm sure you know that can also be a function of type of film used. It's interesting to use a program like Photoshop or GIMP and play with the RGB stuff...

Here's a little for instance from a scan of a 34th BS aircraft:



Note how this 34th BS plane's blue cowl can appear almost the same color as the OD, much darker with the red in the star almost completely washed out, or the same color as the red.

Ryan

[gamary]

I'm glad you like the profiles. I've had some difficulties doing them as I lack accurate reference to the B-25, especially the early versions. Your profiles are well researched and accurate, which is a rare thing. I usually don't use other painters' profiles as reference for my own but yours were obviously the result of serious research, so I did.

I know about the different types of B&W film and the way they translate colours into greys. (That is, I know it's difficult to interpret, but I don't know enough about them to risk trying that myself.)

I agree with you about the OD-overpainted cowls - it would be a logical explanation to why they look slightly different but not clearly so. A more recently painted cowl would show up differently because of a smoother surface and unfaded colour (as is the case on Hari Karier, with that OD patch in front of the nose art). If they had been painted, the difference should have been more obvious IMHO.

As for 02268, I hadn't seen that photo showing the cropped serial, so I'll modify the profile. Thanks for the heads-up.

If you're interested, I can send you the article once it's published. It's probably going to be a rather general article, which wouldn't be of much value to you, but if you want a copy let me know.

[RyanShort]

I'd definitely like to see the article.

Ryan

[gamary]

No problem. I'll send you a copy as soon as it's out.

[Todd Joyce]

On that photo of Yorks plane it almost has a shiny appearance like it may have even been an unpainted replacement cowl which was painted OD before the raid...

[gamary]

To Ryan and those who might be interested:

The first issue of the magazine is finally out and a PDF version can be downloaded for free. All you need to do is register at http://www.sre-editions.com/. If you have difficulties registering (it's in French) or if the download doesn't work, please let me know (contact me through gaetanmarie.com) and I will give you a direct download link.

The editor wants to have an idea of how many people are interested in it so that's why I'd rather have people register. Since the first issue is free, I figure that's a fair enough deal.

EDIT: the magazine has actually been out since late December. As I had a big computer crash and lost nearly everything, I had to restore everything in could on my new computer and get back to work before sharing the info. Better late than never they say.

[RyanShort]

Thanks for the update. I just registered and am downloading it as I type.

Ryan

[ontario23]

hi gamary
are you familiar with cad softwares like CatiaV5
I need some help I had to design a Car model with the help of CatiaV5 software its my minor project
please provide me some tips

[gamary]

Sorry, ontario23, I'm afraid I have absolutely no qualifications in 3D. I only use Photoshop. You might want to try specialized 3D forums. I'm sure the people there will be able to help you.